David Reid ([info]dreid) wrote,
@ 2005-06-06 15:55:00
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Apple switch.
Just so everyone who knows me is aware, I no longer care to discuss the news that Apple will be switching to x86 based systems. I had already decided that I would be replacing my Powerbook with a PC laptop, so this news does not affect me, and I really do not care to discuss it further.

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[info]z3p
2005-06-06 05:42 pm UTC (link)
May I enquire as to why? I had decided that I would be replacing my PC laptop with a Powerbook, so I'd like to hear your rationale for going the other way.
-p

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I like common having a common workspace.
[info]dreid
2005-06-06 06:14 pm UTC (link)
It is increasingly difficult for me to do this between ubuntu on my desktop and os x on my powerbook, I can deal with the fundamental UI difference, in fact using quicksilver on OS X got me using waffle.jl for sawfish a lot more. But it's the little differences between maintaining common config files that is bothersome. Especially when it comes to things like Emacs which has just oh so slight variations between the carbon emacs build i use on my mac and the build that is ubuntu. These things are minor annoyances but I find myself spending more time than I'd like to fixing them. I keep common config files in svn and I don't like having to maintain branches of files so yeah. That's why I decided I would pick one or the other, I'd either replace my PC with a Mac, or my Mac with a PC, and frankly I just don't write much code for the mac, and the PC is going to be less expensive so it just makes sense to me right now.
-- David

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Re: I like common having a common workspace.
[info]anarkystic
2005-06-07 02:55 am UTC (link)
weak. money should never play into this argument.

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Re: I like common having a common workspace.
[info]dreid
2005-06-07 10:43 am UTC (link)
Money is a perfectly valid point in this argument. I don't see the point in paying $1000 more for an OS I'm typically _less_ productive in. OS X is my secondary OS, and I'm tired of having a secondary OS. By the time I feel i've gotten all the usefulness out of my Powerbook apple will have started the roll-out of X86 machines, so I'd pretty much be paying for the OS if i were to replace it with another Mac. See how that works? Money is a perfectly valid point.

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Re: I like common having a common workspace.
[info]anarkystic
2005-06-07 01:05 pm UTC (link)
"By the time I feel i've gotten all the usefulness out of my Powerbook apple will have started the roll-out of X86 machines, so I'd pretty much be paying for the OS if i were to replace it with another Mac."

That is such an invalid argument and you know it. You could make that argument about practically anything. Plus, you're not going to be getting much of anything more out of more power anyway, how often are you cpu-bound? Things won't all be native x86 for quite some time anyway, it took 4 years to get rid of the chains of Classic.

As far as less productive on, that is nobody's fault but your own. You're a l33t hax0r, you'll not have a problem doing anything you need to do on Mac, and truthfully their architecture is just better than the linux distros. They hired all the people who worked on those projects, gave them a bunch of money, and surrounded them with like-minded people. Take a look at 10.4 Server sometime, it is the best server you'll touch. The worst problem you'll run in to is difference in design opinion, things like "why is the delete button in mail on the left instead of the right."

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Re: I like common having a common workspace.
[info]glyf
2005-06-09 12:58 am UTC (link)
Aw man. I can't resist a good knock-down drag-out fight :). This is also a familial disagreement - my dad is still a Mac man, whereas I'm on Ubuntu pretty much exclusively now. Honestly, the mac is a perfectly good platform. I just like being contrary :).

"how often are you CPU-bound"?

All the time. I don't know about you, but I have several suites of unit tests that take 20+ minutes to run which I would prefer to run instantaneously - especially on artificially underpowered machines like macs :). Seriously though, CPU isn't the problem. The biggest issue I have with macs is the woefully underpowered disks: and since you have to compile everything yourself on the mac due to the paucity of binary packages, this is a constant annoyance.

"it took 4 years to get rid of the chains of Classic"

And 6 years to get rid of the chains of 680x0. Do you remember how miserable those times were? I suffered through every minute of it. Twice. Never again.

"as far as less productive on..."

The emacs build for OS X is buggy and substantially slower than its Linux (and even Windows) equivalents.

"Take a look at 10.4 Server sometime"

I beg to differ. Mac servers, while not the laughingstock they were a few years ago, still don't really compare favorably to Linux. Their vaunted management UI makes it fun and easy to administer a single node but only for the bundled applications, not for your own custom work... and it's hard to automate configuration changes to clusters. Again, you have to compile everything yourself on the mac rather than getting nice packaged applications as with a Debian derivative.

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Re: I like common having a common workspace.
[info]anarkystic
2005-06-09 02:37 am UTC (link)
"Do you remember how miserable those times were?" Certainly not, I wouldn't touch a Mac until post-X. Classic -shudder-.

Being a vim person, I'm sure we have some considerable productivity clashes, but between Exposé, Applescript-able and Automator-able applications, painless Bluetooth device support, standard interfaces for file-combo boxes with consistent behaviors, spring-loaded folders, beautiful apps like Quicksilver, SubEthaEdit, NetNewsWire, Ecto, Growl, OmniGraffle and Adium, effective replacements for just about every linux and windows app *I* have relied on, target disk mode and a keyboard that lights up in the dark, I find I am never hindered by my environment.

Ubuntu has surely improved since I last looked at it, but I don't think it could make me any more productive if it tripled my CPU and disk speed.

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Re: I like common having a common workspace.
[info]jerub
2005-06-09 06:29 pm UTC (link)
Linux is Free, Mac is only kinda sorta free.
I can't run linux effectively on Apple hardware.

When that changes, I'll ponder shelling out money for more macs, and promoting macs as a decent option for developers.

until then. vive le free software.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
money is the _only_ point in this argument
[info]glyf
2005-06-09 01:03 am UTC (link)
You pay a certain number of dollars, you get a certain amount of goods: CPU power, disk space, ease of use, whatever. You can quantify everything.

For some people it might make sense to trade in to the Mac's higher time-saved-per-dollar ratio for its lower tech-power-per-dollar ratio, but that's a subjective measurement. Assuming that dreid does not believe that the mac's timesaving or design value really pans out in the subjective department, there are absolutely no objective measures of power where the mac provides better value technologically, despite apple's hilariously ironic continuing attempts to demonstrate otherwise.

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Re: money is the _only_ point in this argument
[info]anarkystic
2005-06-09 02:45 am UTC (link)
my reasoning in this is rooted firmly in my subjective feelings that when you are investing in a purchase, you invenst in the best item, regardless of the cost.

What I meant by saying money shouldn't play into this is that if David thinks the best computer is an x86 running linux then it shouldn't matter if the x86 running linux cost $1000 more than the mac. If you are choosing the best option, choose the best option, if money becomes an issue either save or decide to settle for something less than the best option.

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[info]moshez
2005-06-07 01:35 am UTC (link)
Yay I hug you tiny person! I will squish your tiny shoulders in small happiness!

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[info]nightchrome
2005-06-07 05:01 am UTC (link)
OMG dreid, did you hear what Apple is doing!?

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